toxin or brain tumor. maybe he's just drunk. >> don't forget to set your dvr so you never miss an episode of "the five" "special report with bret baier up next." president obama says it's not perfect but promises his beleaguered health care reform program is not going away. this is "special report." >> good evening. i'm bret baier. president obama took another shot this afternoon at another relaunch of his massively troubled health care reform initiative. he says he'll keep at it as long as it takes. we have fox team coverage tonight. shannon breem has another trip to federal court for obama care. jim anchor with the big december countdown that has more to do with health insurance than the holiday. .

we begin with chief white house correspondent ed henry and a president who is not backing down. good evening, ed. >> reporter: good evening, brett. the president said he's learned not to make any more wild promises about the web site. nonetheless he went on offense. his aides tell me the now finally believe the tide is starting to turn in their favor. >> the bottom line is, this law is working and will work into the future. >> reporter: a defiant president obama tried to change the narrative on his botched rollout, claiming healthcare.gov is turning the corner and benefits are kicking in. as he unveiled yet another sales pitch that republicans are still just not buying. >> while the white house wants to claim that healthcare.gov is now working, we know that obama care is still plagued with problems. and every american deserves relief from it. >> reporter: relief is also needed for congressional democrats who are nervously watching their poll numbers sink ahead of 2014 while the president's own approval ratings plummet. so he launched a new political campaign to call republicans out

for not offering an alternative to a law that he vowed will not be torn down. >> you've got good ideas? bring them to me. let's go. but we're not repealing it as long as i'm president. i want everybody to be clear about that. >> reporter: with his em battled health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius and senior adviser valerie jarrett looking on he declared this is his top priority. >> if i have to fight another three years to make sure this law works that's what we'll de. >> there are millions more who stand to be helped. and we've got to make sure they know that. and i've said very clearly that our poor execution in the first couple months on the web site clouded the fact that there are a whole bunch of people who stand to benefit. >> reporter: another attempt by the president to assert the law itself is not the problem. and if only his team had better

communicated how good it is and done a better job on the well, all would be fine. even though descendent republican leader mitch mcconnell quickly noted the president has launched at least a dozen major p.r. blitzes over health care the last four years. >> people are not buying it. >> because the law passed, the president won re-election the supreme court upheld it and 1 million people showed up on the web site yesterday. 380,000 showed up before noon today. >> reporter: republicans insist the web site issues are just the tip of the iceberg. >> this bill is fundamentally flawed. it's causing people to lose the doctor of their choice, causing them to lose their health plan. if that isn't enough, they're having to pay much higher prices at the same time. >> reporter: now boehner's office noting tonight there was not a lot of air cover for the president today from congressional democrats. didn't have a lot of news conferences or anything like that. perhaps nervous about the

politics of touting this health care law. but a white house official just told me it's only the first day of a three-week rollout, and the believe they'll have the support in the end. brett? >> any sense how much this is all going to cost the taxpayer? >> reporter: well, there's basically officials confirming tonight that they're looking at ways to help maybe provide some money to insurance companies to delay those cancellation notices for a year as the president promised a few weeks ago. there are republican critics saying this could be a bailout. what the white house is saying tonight they hope there'll be enough young healthy pipe to sign up and sort of balance the risk pool so there won't be a lot of risk to taxpayers. if the young healthy people don't sign up, that could expose taxpayers. no doubt about it, breath. >> ed, thanks. many of you have obviously circled december 25th on your calendar for obvious reasons. but tonight chief national correspondent jim angle tells us there's another day that could be even more important to you and your family if you're on the

hunt for health insurance. >> reporter: the christmas rush this year won't just be for items to go under the tree. december 23rd is also the new deadline to get insurance policy to take effect on january 1st. >> i think it's fair to say that you're going to have to see hundreds of thousands of people enroll pretty much every day between now and the 23rd in order to get to the goal. >> but they still have a massive problem of millions of people that supposedly need coverage and a system that really isn't built well enough to handle that. >> reporter: the goal toys sign up 7 million for private insurance and 9 million for medicaid by the end of march. all that on top of some 5 million policies that were canceled because the didn't meet the requirements of obama care which represent far more than 5 million people. >> most policies cover multiple people. say two spouse and some children. it could be as many as 10 or 12 or 14 million people have lost their coverage. >> the rollout has been very rocky. and it's caused major disruptions. and at this point i think the

question is, how do you operate a salvage operation that will get you back on track. >> reporter: mendelson says so far the total enrollment is about 150,000 at both the state and federal levels, but more than half that, 80,000, came from just california, meaning the federal marketplaces are way behind. >> you have to run through the system well over 200,000 people per day for those 23 days in december. so is the web site really capable of handling 200,000 signups just to cover the individual cancellations? >> reporter: but the pre-christmas crush isn't the only problem. the federal government hasn't built the software to accurately tell insurance companies who's actually enrolled. one report says up to one-third of the enrollments since october 1st have errors so people may think they have coverage when they do not. >> one problem is that the insurance companies may not know that somebody's enrolled when they think they're enrolled because the signup process was so screwed up. >> the web site was supposed to

be the entry point for enrolling and automating the enrollment and paying of insurance plans. it is nowhere near ready to do that. >> reporter: in fact, officials say the software to make that work correctly hasn't even been built yet. brett? >> jim, thanks. one group definitely profiting from the obama care mess, lawyers. the health plan is once again being dragged into court. correspondent shannon bream is here with that story. tell us about this latest challenge. >> reporter: today in federal court in washington this is a lawsuit about the text of an irs regulation stemming from the overall health care law. the plaintiffs in this case say the text of the law says those subsidies that go out to help people buy insurance are only supposed to be given out in states that have set up their own state exchanges and not into states where the federal government is the one operating the exchange. the irs says not. so according to the agency's interpretation those subsidies go to applicants in every state. that is a huge distinction. it's very important. because where the subsidies are awarded, that triggers massive

costly mandates for the employers. they wouldn't have otherwise. that's why they're suing. they say the costs will force them to cut employee hours, stop hiring, maybe even go out of business. they say this is just another example of overreach by the federal government. they say it primarily stems from the executive branch because the believe theist is acting on order from the white house. >> that issue of executive overreach got a lot of attention on capitol hill today. >> reporter: yeah. there was a very heated hearing in the house today about presidential power how far it goes. generally and more specifically they did talk about president obama and said there are times he doesn't enforce laws that he didn't think are proper like immigration laws but has made changes to his health care law by making a statement or something posted in a white house blog. george washington university law professor testified today and said no matter who the president is that, actually sets a very dangerous presence precedent. here's what he said. >> the center of gravity is shifting that.

makes it unstable. within that system you have the rise of a uber presidency. there could be no greater danger for individual liberty. >> he said in hithe founders wo unhappy and surprised by what's happening now. but democrats on the committee said hey, presidents from both parties have done this and as long as we have gridlock on capitol hill president obama is likely to continue doing it. >> okay, shannon, thank you. an economic life preserver for a city would be a financial disaster for many people who gave much of their lives to that city. correspondent mike tobin reports tonight on the granting of bankruptcy protection for detroit. >> reporter: the rule, is unwelcome to detroit city employees as their pension now hangs in the balance as detroit digs itself out from $18 billion in debt. >> this is a moral issue that we're dealing with. it is wrong for you to take somebody's pension that have given their lives, that have sacrificed 30 years. >> reporter: the trouble began with the exodus that followed automotive jobs. with the smaller tax base, city

leaders did not reduce the budget. under pressure from labor unions, they never reduced things like health benefits or bonuses. when the budget was in the red the borrowed. judge steven rhodes wondered out loud why this hadn't happened sooner as he made the historic ruling that detroit is eligible for chapter 9 bankruptcy. now pension, for more than 23,000 firefighters, police and other municipal employees are facing the potential of dramatic reductions. >> we're trying to be very thoughtful, measured and humane about what we have to do. what i can tell them is that the reality is there's not enough money to address the situation no matter what we do >> reporter: the american federation of state, county and municipal employees immediately filed a notification of appeal, noting that there is no insurance to act as a bock stop for city pensioners, they just lose money. also noting that judge rhodes determined the city did not bargain with pension representatives in good faith but there was no practical way to do so. >> we are disappointed with the fact that the judge found in

effect the didn't have to. we think that's bad for detroit and we think that sets a bad precedent for other cities. >> reporter: the emergency manager says this is a new beginning, a chance to work with city employees and move forward. representatives of the pensioners say this is the start of the fight. >> the fight isn't over here. the mere fact that the city is eligible certainly does not indicate that the pensions board or the retirees are going to allow any diminishment or impairment that is presented by the estimate perhaps the fight has now just begun. >> reporter: the cuts and changes are not immediate. action really starts when the emergency manager, kevin orr, presents what is called the plan for adjustment that. gets the ball rolling. it's expected before the end of the year. brett? >> mike tobin live in detroit tonight. mike, thanks. more on this with the panel. a second straight down day on wall street. the dow lost 94. s & p fell 6. the nasdaq was off 8. up next, what could be law

enforcement's worst nightmare. and you can make them at home. but first what some of our fox affiliates across the country are covering tonight. fox 5 in new york with the latest on sunday's deadly train derailment. a union official says the engineer caught himself nodding off at the controls prior to the crash. fox 13 in tacoma on seattle seahawks fans rocking their stadium so hard during last night's game it registered as an earthquake. and this is a live look at our denver affiliate, kdvr. the big story there tonight, preparations for what could be the coldest air in years. temperatures below 0 are forecast wednesday, thursday and friday in denver, colorado, along with about a foot of snow. that's tonight's live look outside the beltway from special report. we'll be right back. once upon a time, an insurance clerk stumbled upon a cottage. [knock] no one was at home, but on the kitchen table

sat three insurance policies. the first had lots of coverage. the second, only a little. but the third was... just right! bear: hi! yeah, we love visitors. that's why we moved to a secluded house in the middle of the wilderness. just the right coverage at just the right price. coverage checker from progressive.

this afternoon the house approved a measure renewing a 25-year-old prohibition against undetectable firearms. the chief intelligence correspondent kathryn heritage reports concerns remain that new technology could make getting a deadly weapon into a restricted area much easier. >> reporter: making a plastic gun that's lethal and fires like the real thing is no longer a fantasy for enthusiasts like cody wilson. wilson, a pioneer of 3d gun making says the emergence of new printer technology and the availability of resilient plastics mean the possibilities are endless. >> there'll be hybrid technologies and new material families which will enable people to make relatively different composite style weapons that look different and act differently and are much more reliable than today. >> reporter: the bureau of alcohol, twak questi alcohol,, tobacco and firearms -- the guns can only be detected using traditional screening methods like at

amounamoun airport as schools because now the guns must contain a metal part. >> it's illegal to have a firearm with less than 7 ounces of metal in that firearm. >> it's about gaining a foothold into the digital manufacture of weaponry. >> reporter: after a brief delay, the house voted today on a bipartisan basis to reauthorize the undetectable firearms act that was set to expire next week. the legislation now goes to the senate. the atf says the law which dates back to 1988 was forward-thinking 25 years ago, but even with the renewal it may not go far enough because the metal is only cosmetic and not part of the firing mechanism. >> instead of having a metal bloc that's easily removed from that firearm, forward thinking would be to have metal portion that was part of the functioning of that firearm. >> reporter: a leading senate democrat says the law's renewal ace no-brainer and he's vowing to make modifications that will

deal with law enforcement's concerns. >> that's very dangerous. because if you can remove the metal at the last minute, put the gun through the metal detector, it will get through and could create mayhem. the house bill today keeps that loophole in the law. >> reporter: while the senate still need to act on the night the law expires the same day they're back in session some large cities aren't waiting for congress. philadelphia banned 3d gun printing just last month, brett. >> kathryn, thank you. do you think new laws are needed to restrict plastic guns? let me know at facebook.com/brettbair sr. lawmakers meet again tomorrow to work on the much delayed farm bill. the latest short-term extension runs out at the end of the year. there are grim forecasts of major price increases for food if new legislation is not passed. the speaker of the house today said he's done all he can.

>> i want the farm bill conference to be completed. chairman lucas has made a number of good-faith efforts. we can't get senate democrats to the point of saying yes. it is time for the other chamber to get serious about getting this work finished. >> coming up, a u turn on europe has ukrainians giving their leaders a failing grade next. [ male announcer ] this is george. the day building a play set begins with a surprisewinge of back pain... and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. [ male announcer ] that's handy. ♪

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secretary of state john kerry is urging the ukrainian government to listen to its people. senior foreign affairs correspondent amy kellogg has

the story tonight from london. >> reporter: they didn't win their vote of no confidence, but they aren't going home. hundreds of thousands of ukrainians have taken to the streets for days now, furious that their president has ditched a plan to sign an association agreement with the european union which would have been a strategic step towards the west. president victor yanakovich sudden jerk back toward the east last week was due to pressure from russia, ukraine's old soviet master and current energy supplier. what ramped up the resolve of the protesters was police violence over the weekend. the prime minister addressed the issue today. >> tmpbl>> translator: i want t apologize by the actions of our law enforcement agency in the square. >> reporter: the economy is in the doldrums. the opposition feels it's irresponsible to keep kiev's wagon hitched to moscow but the didn't get a no-confidence vote today in parliament, though the

opposition made its feelings toward the government clear. >> translator: you westernly together with them are responsible for the children's blood ni blood in the end comprehensive square. >> reporter: it has been a decade of political turmoil for what was once one of the most powerful soviet republics. a fraudulent election in 2004, an orange revolution, a form prime minister going to jail for abuse of power and now a once-disgraced politician back and fighting for his survival. all of this clearly keeping the country from achieving the post-soviet prosperity it so desires. brett? >> amy, thanks. house lawmakers looking into last year's terror attacks in benghazi heard from two more cia employees today. a source tells fox news the two said by the time they arrived from tripoli, state department workers were going into shock and crying. the also said the mortar fire from terrorists was the work of trained professionals.

a senior obama administration official is confirming tonight that vice president biden expressed solidarity with john paul today over china's claim to air space over disputed islands. biden met with japanese prime minister shinzo abe. they have established an air defense zone which the u.s. and japan and other allies are refusing to recognize. biden says he will raise the issue with the chinese president when they get together thursday. though he has been told to leave the country twice, president obama's uncle now gets to stay. and drink on the house courtesy of your state department. the grapevine is next. ale annou] here's a question for you. if every u.s. home replaced one light bulb with a compact fluorescent bulb, the energy saved could light how many homes? 1 million? 2 million? 3 million? the answer is... 3 million homes. by 2030, investments in energefficiency

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political grapevine. breaking news this afternoon and bit of a grapevine followup, president obama's kenyan-born uncle has been granted permission to stay in the u.s. a judge ruled 69-year-old anyango obama, a person of good moral character. he's lived in the country since the 1960s, was ordered deported twice and did not leave when he lost an appeal in 1992. when he was arrested for drunk driving in 2011 he reportedly told police quote i think i will call the white house. the administration says president obama has never met his uncle. venezuelan president nicholas meduro is getting a first hand look with the trouble

of running a socialist government. much of the country plunged into darkness as he gave a live address on state tv last night. meduro called the blackout strange and blamed it on fascist power grid saboteurs. he acts confused and points a finger at others when things go wrong. he has blamed a toilet paper shortage on rich conservatives and youth violence on "spider-man." critics say the parish use are symbolic of the socialist government's policy failures and that the state-run power company is corrupt and inefficient. they generate two-thirds of the power through hydro electricity. blackouts are caused by rationing and utility failures but do not affect oil refineries which are powered by separate generators. as the u.s. government prepared to partially shut down this fall, the state department was stock up on booze for

embassies. the "washington times" reports that state spent about 180,000 bucks on liquor in just september. for the year, $415,000. that's more than triple the $118,000 spent in 2008. a taxpayer watchdog group notes that though relatively small, the purchases are symbolic as the fiscal year winds down federal agencies try to spend the rest of their budgets rather than risk congressional cuts. state says it's a mistake to assume the department's operational priorities by looking at individual purchases. finally an american animal rights group is looking to establish legal personhood for chimpanzees. the nonhuman rights project has asked a new york state court to declare a 26-year-old chimp named tommy quote a cogtively complex autonomous legal person with a fundamental legal right not to be imprisoned.

in other words, chimps are entitled to be basic -- the basic right to be left alone and not kept for research or entertainment. we learned moments ago that secretary of state john kerry will discuss administration overturs to iran before the house foreign affairs committee next week. he's trying to get congress to delay new sanctions. tonight correspondent james rosen on iran's rapidly expanding nuclear efforts and who is responsible. >> reporter: when he announced the nuclear deal with iran last month, secretary of state john kerry sought to pre-empt criticism that the accord grants iran the right to enrich uranium by pointing to the staggering number of centrifuges the regime has installed and by implying this whole situation could have been avoided if only president bush had done the right thing a decade ago. >> in 2003, when the iranians made an offer for the former administration with respect to their nuclear program, there were 164 centrifuges.

that offer was not taken. subsequently sanctions came in. and today there are 19,000 centrifuges and growing. >> reporter: demming exactly when iran crossed a particular technical threshold can be difficult. after all, the regime has hidden entire nuclear fa sill tis for years at a time. let's accept kerry's assertion that a decade ago iran possessed only 164 centrifuges. we know from u.n. inspections and other analyses by late 2007 iran had some 3,000 centrifuges. over the course of george w. bush's final 12 to 15 months in the white house, iran likely added to but did not quite double its arsenal of centrifuges and thus had perhaps 5,000 installed at the beginning of 2009. >> to the muslim world we take a new way forward. >> reporter: since barack obama became president then iran has installed roughly 14,000 sent

fujs, about 74 pers the total on hand. >> the majority has taken place under president obama's watch, correct? >> i'd have to check on the specific numbers. >> you're not prepared to dispute that statement? >> james, i think what we're focused on at this point is the fact that we're now at a point where we are halting and rolling back the progress of their program and we're working towards a comprehensive agreement to bring an end to it. >> reporter: the white house repeated today that sanctions drove iran to the negotiating table but as kerry himself said in the clip we showed you sanctions came in and today there are 19,000 centrifuges and growing. >> james, thank you. an international report card for schools has poor grades for u.s. students. american teens ranked 20th for reading skills out of 65 countries tested. the were ranked 22nd in science in math, the u.s. was well below average with 28 countries ahead. the president makes another pitch for obama care.

is anyone on the panel buying it? we'll find out. the latest when we come back.

test test test test today the web site is working well for the vast majority of users. more problems may pop up as they always do when you're launching something new. and when they do we'll fix those, too. i will work with anybody to implement and improve law effectively. you've got good ideas? bring them to me. let's go. but we're not repealing it as long as i'm president. i want everybody to be clear about that. >> it's not just a broken web site. this bill is fundamentally flawed. it's causing people to lose the doctor of their choice, causing them to lose their health plan. and if that isn't enough,

they're having to pay much higher prices at the same time. >> president obama with a relaunch today on his health care bill, the health care law. and the house speaker today. this is what "politico" wrote today about this effort by the white house. "president barack obama will launch a coordinated campaign tuesday by the white house, congressional democrats and their outside allies to return attention to why the affordable care act passed in the first place." republicans sent out "did anyone tell congressional democrats? the house radio tv gallery lists not single event by democrats today. the white house focused on a nonobama care related item. senate democrats are still in recess. let's bring in our panel. syndicated columnist george will, maria eliason and syndicated columnist and author of "things that matter" charles krout hammer. george. >> well, i suppose it's fitting that this president who's the

first president who's campaigned for the presidency was his qualification for the presidency is now campaigning yet again. and as he speaks, the more he speaks the more carefully you have to parse his sentences. on sunday the administration said we have fixed -- this is bragging -- we have fixed more than 400 software problems. confession, the launched this thing with more than 400 software problems already in it. then today the president gave a rather strange statement where he said, almost half a million, translation fewer than half a million, americans out of 315 million americans are pleased to gain health care coverage. if you can tell me what that means you're way ahead of me. down the street from the studio today, there was the court challenge to the plan reading of the law that the irs exceeded its authority in authorizing subsidies to the federal exchanges that shannon bream talked about and coming it a courthouse near you soon is

another case. the constitution says all revenue measures must start in the house. the chief justice in his creative defense of the health care act said the penalty is actually a tax which makes this a revenue measure which originated in the senate and therefore under article i, section vii is unconstitutional. besides that everything is going swimming will. >> i there was a heated committee hearing today about that article i. back to the president's relaunch and all of this effort, what about this? and where this white house stands, where it thinks it stands right now. >> i think the white house understands that it's in a very deep hole. and the hole is vastly or most love i its own making. thayer relaunching the health care web site. it actually had 1 million visitors and that didn't crash so it's pretty good. now health kah law itself gets tested no. longer ant the web site. i think republicans understand

that. republicans also are not talking about repeal. i think they feel that they're going to let this law collapse of its own weight, they're going to highlight obama care horror stories, keep on focusing on vulnerable democrat incumbents particularly in the senate who went out and repeated the president's promises about how if you had a plan you liked you could keep it period. but now we have to see if a lot of things fall into place for the white house are. they going to get 7 million people, the right mix of 7 million people, enough young people to sign up by march 31st, and can they turn around public opinion on this law? it's now more negative than it's ever been, like about 56 to 40% noi negative. they have to have a lot of things go right for them. >> yesterday we talked about the data going into the insurance companies that they they are reporting is garbled incomplete. the back end is the payment of

the premium. you can't have the insurance unless you pate premium. there was testimony on capitol hill a couple of weeks ago that that was never set up through this system. so insurers will have to reach out to those individually. no matter it would be a big zero if they don't pain the premium. >> another linguistics slight of hand here. it's the cash register. it's the point at which you make the purchase. and if you don't have correct information or any information you don't have a purchase, you don't have enrollment, you don't have a plan, you have a catastrophe. and everybody understands that. i don't agree that the web site issue is over. it's still a rolling issue. the cancellations and the other issues are just added upon it and they're going to get worse next year when you get the cancellations from the employers. but the web site's a

catastrophe. what we heard jay carney say breezily today, a million people went on the web site. how many enrolled? apparently that number is not obtainable. either they know it and are suppression it, which i suspect is probably true, or they have no way of knowing which tells you that this thing is a turkey. after i mean amazon refreshes its best seller list every hour. i know because i check it every hour [ laughter ] >> every hour. these guys say we're going to have to wait a month until we'll be able to tell you how many enroll? this thing is absolutely nonfunctional. and obama dish mean, this sort of touching the way he believes in the power of rhetoric, his rhetoric, in denying and trumping reality. he can't. he can issue all the words he wants, but unless he fixes what's out there, people are experiencing the cancellations,

experiencing the pauses. and if they show up on january 1 thinking thayer enrolled in a plan, see a doctor and current expenses aren't, that's going to be the end for obama care. >> george, what about this talking point that i will work with anybody to implement and improve law effectively? in other words, what do you have? >> well -- >> that's what you'll hear. >> sure. the republicans have a whole lot of proposals, which together make a coherent plan. premium support and paul ryan's budget, john mccain's 2008 premise, health savings buy insurance across state lines, tax employer-provided health insurance is what it is, compensation. but give people large tax credits to go into the market and shop. that's a republican program. the president knows you can't pull out one little strand of obama care and plug in something sensible because the whole thing collapses. that's the problem with this. and the real problem is, the most tech savvy one might almost say tech snobbish person of our

population are young people. they've watched this disaster. and they're saying i want to trust my health to these guys? i don't think so. >> and i'd add one item. the absence of tort reform in a bill that's 2,000 pages long is an absolute scandal. everybody understands that the reason we have the most expensive health care in the world is because we have an insane malpractice system, and this did absolutely nothing. and the reason is as howard dean admitted once, we didn't want to anger the trial lawyers. >> as far as we can tell there still has not been an end to end security test on this web site. and when we hear these security experts testify, they're still really concerned about the -- >> there are ken and the white house says they're addressing them. that's still an open question among many. but look, i think one of the problems for republicans is if they're not going to be for repeal, and we know repeal is not popular even though obama care isn't popular, they have to be for something.

we don't know what they are for. i don't think anybody could tell you what the republican health care plan is. >> and they'll i have to. >> they'll have to eventually. >> obama care refutes itself even in the absence of a republican plan. the city of detroit gets its bankruptcy ruling. now many city workers think they're not happy with it. that's next.

just as of today two years ago the auto industry wasn't just struggling it was flat lining. g.m. and chrysler were on the verge of collapse. but we refused to throw in the towel and do nothing. we refuse to let detroit go bankrupt. i bet on american workers and american ingenuity and three years later, that bet

is paying off in a big way. >> well, that was a few weeks before election day 2012. and today the ruling came down that detroit is eligible for chapter 9 bankruptcy. this was today in the white house briefing room. >> i thought in the campaign he said it would be horrible for detroit to go bankrupt. >> well, i think there was enormous hardship caused by some of the problems that have happened in detroit which is why this needs to be resolved between the city and its creditors. our position on this is the same as it was prior to the judge's ruling and prior -- or in the immediate aftermath of the declaration of bankruptcy. charles? >> i don't necessarily defend the president but clearly what he meant by detroit was a shorthand for the auto industry. he was not referring to detroit the city. i think there is no way in which he is going to engineer a bailout of detroit. at least anyone that can be seen. perhaps there can be ways

that he can transfer money that will be less visible. look, this is an issue that detroit is going to have to settle. it owes $18 billion, which it cannot pay. michael barone was once asked why he went from being a liberal to a conservative. and he had a one word answer, detroit. he grew up in detroit. 50 years of liberal governors, utterly ruined it. in addition to outright theft and fraud. and this is the legacy. the unions are going to try to put a monkey wrench in this to try to slow it down and launch appeals oon this, but, in the end, it's not going to work. unfortunately, the pensioners are going to be hurt as will all the other creditors and detroit is going to have a second chance. otherwise it, has no chance whatsoever. >> >> i agree with that bankruptcy is the managed way to handle debts that you can't pay. that's kind of what myth romney was saying when he said that the auto companies

should go through some type of a bankruptcy procedure and of course somebody put a big headline on his op. ed let detroit goback bankrupt or general motors go bankrupt that gave candidate obama a pretty great opening and all things ironic today. do i agree with charles, this is the only option for this city that's come to this sad state of affairs. >> charles? >> general motors did go bankrupt. it was a rigged bankrupt for the union night auto workers. a few weeks ago i was in detroit and i spent some time with the governor that day he had been out with the clean up crew and clean up a swath of an abandoned part in the city. got to the park and grass and weeds and bushes were so high you couldn't tell what was in the park. he said we found some tires, a boat in the middle of the city, and a body. one hopes the body was found before the packs of farrell dogs in detroit had got to it. i mention this because this isn't like orange county, california goes bankrupt jefferson county birmingham,

alabama goes bankrupt because they made investment. it doesn't have an economic problem it has that, of course. it has cultural collapse and nothing a bankruptcy court can do is going to change that. >> so what about this white house? what it's saying and doing? >> i would like to see them try to get a bailout for a blue city ruined by one party democratic rule through congress. absolutely no attempted. carney had an opportunity to say the federal government is going to help and he stayed way away from that obama said i'm going to spend the next three years of my administration if i have to defending obamacare. he doesn't have any political capital left over for anything, especially the bailout of a democratic city. >> do you think there was ever an effort in the works, marah, to work something out. >> no. >> help detroit in any way? >> no, i do not. i do not. i think this is seen as the best, most orderly way that

detroit can kind of get back on its week slowly. >> for all the preelection talk about where we were preelection. >> well, he feels he saved the auto industry. that's quite different than bailing out an entire bankrupt city. >> at least we have provisions in the law for municipal bankruptcies. there is nothing in the law of the united states that allows for the bankruptcy of a state. so watch illinois, which is in worse shape financially than any other state. >> that is it for the panel. but stay tuned for a special christmas tree lighting here in the nation's capitol where one little boy got quite a surprise. farmer: hello, i'm an idaho potato farmer.

and our giant idaho potato truck is still missing. so my dog and i we're going to go find it. it's out there somewhere spreading the good word about idaho potatoes and raising money for meals on wheels. but we'd really like our truck back, so if you see it, let us know, would you? thanks. what?

yeah... try new alka seltzer fruit chews. they work fast on heartburn and taste awesome. these are good. told ya! i'm feeling better already. [ male announcer ] new alka seltzer fruits chews. enjoy the relief! >> finally tonight. 6-year-old giovani gayner got the three of a lifetime when he was inducted into the police force for the day

during the capitol christmas tree lighting. take a look. >> so giovani may not know this but we require all of our tree lighters to have some special qualifications. now, as i understand it, when you grew up, you want to be a police officer? >> yeah. >> well, the chief and i were talking and if it's okay with you, we would like to make you a junior capitol hill police officer for today. so, chief. [ applause ] >> if you will put the badge on, now you are official. 3, 2, 1. [cheers] ♪ ♪ [o christmas tree] >> congratulations, giovani. that's a good sight.

thanks for inviting us into your home tonight. fair, balanced and unafraid. check out that tree if you can. come down to washington. greta goes "on the record" right now. are you ready? no, no, no. it's not a new apple launch or black friday deal but president obama thinks it's a great deal and he wants you to get all excited. >> the white house wants to claim that healthcare.gov is now working. >> i need some help in spreading the word. i need to you spread the word about the law, about its benefits, about its protections. about how folks can sign up. >> we know that obamacare is still plagued with problems. >> the experience that people are having under this new law, it runs counter to the happy talk we see appearing out of the white house. >> right now what this law is doing is helping folks, and we're just getting started with the exchanges. >> it was a nightmare. they offered coverage for myself, my